Airing dirty laundry.

[bladespark]

You tell me I'm supposed to apologize to you, and then you freeze comments so I can't? Fine. You don't want this to be finished in private, I'll take it public.

I'll say again, I wasn't mad, and I was not telling you what you can't and can't do. I'm just hurt that somebody I thought respected my faith can't tell the difference between something designed to be funny and something designed to be hurtful and offensive.

I'm not going to apologize for being hurt. I'm not going to apologize for being offended. You're making a mockery of something I hold SACRED. Would you find it funny if I posted links to a "how many endangered animals can I get away with killing" challenge? Would you like it if I told folks I'd give away a free prize to everyone who condemns bisexuality as a sick perversion today? Here! Record yourself saying that gays aren't people, I'll mail you a movie! How would it feel if the tables were turned? Getting a prize for DELIBERATE blasphemy isn't great, it's sick. And you have lost the last scraps of respect I had for you by demanding I apologize for being upset about it.

You told me you respected my faith, and then you attack me when I let you know I've been hurt by your disrespect of it. That doesn't sound like you respect me, that sounds like you were just pretending to, so people would think you're a nice, kind, open-minded person. If you really respected my faith, you would respect my right to defend it. I didn't attack you, I didn't say anything negative about you or your character, I just say I was offended, and that I was hurt and disappointed by your behavior.

Well, you've lost a lot more than my respect now. I was dissapointed that you has so little respect for me, but I wasn't mad at you, just kinda sad. But NOW I'm pissed off. Looks like Gungho was right. You'd rather win and be right than compromise, you'd rather lock me out and demand apologies than take half a second and LISTEN to my side of things. I said I was hurt, and you took that as a personal attack. I didn't mean it as one then, but I mean this as one now! I hope you're pleased at the way you "won" this argument. Go you.

Comments

[gungho-squirrel.livejournal.com]

When I started reading this I could only think "Wow, sounds like my arguments with her..." I was only suspicious but doubting the assumption I was making. But then I got to that last paragraph. But I'm going to be as unbiased as possible and address the full situation here...

I'm sorry to hear you've been so stung- especially over beliefs- they, I think, are one of the most valuable things we have. They also define who we are (to an extent). I may be a religious mutt, but spirituality is strong in everybody. And it's always one of the most stinging blows when it is offended. I know it can't ease the hurt of someone you trusted suddenly slapping you in the face, but I have to say it- it's the internet, and too many people are ignorant and cruel behind their computer screens. But I'm sure you know that. (However it doesn't hurt to hear it again! Heh)

*hugs*

PS: Finally got to the post office the other day to pick up the big cardboard envelopes for pictures. Guardian will be in the mail for you shortly! I'm going to wait until after Christmas to mail it, just because post offices can get hectic and I'd prefer it to be a bit calmer for a piece of artwork going through. :) Thanks for being so patient with me.

[bladespark.livejournal.com]

Well, thank you for drawing it.

And honestly... up unti now, all I'd seen suggested she was tolerant, and really meant it when she said she respected my faith. I thought she was sincere, but I guess I was wrong.

[harliquinnraver.livejournal.com]

OH! who was this in regards to??

[bladespark.livejournal.com]

Anjel_kitty

[heffboom-konijn.livejournal.com]

Yeah videos like that are ridiculous for the reason that well there are no facts used or anything remotely smart, its just being rude to others.

[reiko-sazanami.livejournal.com]

Ugh, I commented over at her journal already, and still feel a tad queasy over it.

Yes, she does do some good things, and I do applaud her on her attempts at resucitating our world and everything, but that video was totally unnecessary.

I might be rather quiet about my faith, but when people are being offered a material reward for bashing someone else and denying something I believe in for that reason, I do have to draw the line.

Oh, and hi. :)

[bladespark.livejournal.com]

Hello.

I'm glad I'm not the only person who thought it was inappropriate.

I don't have any problems with people who believe differently than I do. Most of my friends are atheists, pagans, or different denominations of Christianity. I've no problem with somebody who wants to say he doesn't believe in god.

But that just... it was just wrong, that's all. All negative and no positive, all denial and no affirmation. Most folks I know who don't believe in God do believe in /something,/ be it science, or humanity, or something alltogether different. There's no reason to go around bashing others' systems of belief when you could go around promoting what's good about yours.

[sphix.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the username. And hi! I, too, thought it was inappropriate. She has her right to post it, and you have your right to post a reply you felt was justified. People should not have to apologize for getting upset at something. Granted, the only thing that was lost by not doing so was a disrespectful LJ friend (so, in essence, nothing).

One thing I did find interesting...

"She's allowed to post whatever she wants in her journal because it's HERS. She shouldn't have to censor her entries just because a few people might get offended, get over it! People can get offended over anything, and if everyone tried not to offend everyone there would be nothingness. Just plain nothingness. In my opinion, censorship is more indecent than something that someone could possibly find offensive."

So, by that token, we don't have to remove God from everything including money and the Pledge of Allegiance, don't have to start calling "Christmas" "X-MAS," don't have to start calling "Christmas trees" "Holiday trees," don't have to put up Menorahs in department stores and airports, don't have to take Bibles out of hotel rooms, don't have to take the Ten Commandments off of courthouses, and can start praying before football games, right? That's how atheists in general should all feel if they don't like being censored, correct? But that's not how it is. They blow up at the slightest sign of religion sometimes! And we don't have the right to voice our opinion in the way we feel is correct anymore?

"Majority rule, minority rights." Somewhere along the line, I think this idea got struck down, revamped, and put back up: "Minority rule, majority watch." We live in a primarily Christian country, do we not? So what's happening to the majority's rights?

You get major props for having the guts to post there and also for having the decency to be nice about it, blade. *highfive*

[bladespark.livejournal.com]

Awww. Thanks!

Though apparently I'm not being "nice" since everybody and their dog is telling me I over reacted. *shrugs* Oh well.

[graydown.livejournal.com]

You are a shining example of your faith.

[harliquinnraver.livejournal.com]

So, by that token, we don't have to remove God from everything including money and the Pledge of Allegiance, don't have to start calling "Christmas" "X-MAS," don't have to start calling "Christmas trees" "Holiday trees," don't have to put up Menorahs in department stores and airports, don't have to take Bibles out of hotel rooms, don't have to take the Ten Commandments off of courthouses, and can start praying before football games, right? That's how atheists in general should all feel if they don't like being censored, correct? But that's not how it is. They blow up at the slightest sign of religion sometimes! And we don't have the right to voice our opinion in the way we feel is correct anymore?

i dont blow up at the slightest sign of religion. i just prefer not to have it crammed down my throat. seeing religious stuff doesnt bother me in the least, but its when people say "god bless you (in a religious way, not a sneezing way), i hope god forgives you" and such and when people feel that its okay to come into MY LJ and start preaching to me about god, thats what irks me. i dont sigh and roll my eyes at anyones faith but i also dont appreciate getting bashed for my lack there of. just like i hated standing for the national anthem or the pledge of allegience. im sorry, but standing during a little song does not mean that im patriotic. i could just as easily sit and be patriotic. my feelings for my country do not lie in my leg muscles, they lie in my heart and mind.

and as for xmas, i just prefer to call it xmas because its far less typing. it really has nothing to do with my stance on religion or christ. ;)


its sad that lawsuits are thrown around so carelessly these days that anyone can be offended by holiday themes or decorations and sue.

[winterofashes.livejournal.com]

wow, just wow. Your attempt to knock down my comment was pathetic. Neither I nor anjel ever said that you could or could not do all of those things you mentioned. Besides, this is NOT about a PUBLIC arena like a sports stadium or the like. It's about a PERSONAL JOURNAL.

[2dlife.livejournal.com]

A little bit of a non-sequitur, but their grammatical construction is very interesting.

I deny the Holy Spirit

Ok, as I see it, this can have three different interpretations:

1) I refuse/turn down the Holy Spirit. Fair enough, but then there must be a Holy Spirit to deny, n'est-ce pas? This interpretation indicates that the speaker is a believer in said Holy Spirit but doesn't know what's good for him. Active idiocy.

2) I refuse the existence of the Holy Spirit in/for/through me. This one flat out states that the Holy Spirit doesn't exist, at least for the person in question. This is a strong statement in that, as the speaker is potentially the person who knows this best, the statement is hard to rebut. It's a weak statement in that, who cares? This sort of statement is unoffensive.

3) I refuse the existence of the Holy Spirit unequivocally, as a whole. This is almost certainly the interpretation that they're going for. The natural response is "what makes you the expert?" One reason why I find their statements offensive, even though I don't believe in a Judeo-Christian God, is that there's an implicit authority in the statement that some random people on the internet should not be professing to have.

Last point on the use of "deny". Deny is an active verb. It's not passive (like "don't accept" which would be much less offensive) and used in the sense of "reject". It also carries authority; you need to earn the right to deny something: either by having it offered to you or by otherwise being an active participant in the story. Thus while Mr Bush can deny any wrongdoing in Iraq, it would be illogical for a Russian peasant to say "I deny any wrongdoing in Iraq". People on the internet claiming the right to deny something as important as God is on some sliding scale between preposterous and infuriating.

[sphix.livejournal.com]

Haha! I loved the first interpretation! I appreciate that you were able to present the thoughts here in an organized manner. The Internet is slowly turning into the "Internet/City-with-many-hobos-that-only-reply-with-WTF-and-urinate-on-cyberspace's-walls," is it not? Definite kudos.

[bladespark.livejournal.com]

That's really an interesting way of looking at it.

Funnily enough, part of my "over reacting" in my first response was to point out that, as far as my understanding of the right interpretation of the original scripture about denying the holy ghost, those doing it for this video aren't actually capable of committing the "unforgiveable sin" because they don't know the holy ghost in the first place. To deny it in the sense meant in the scripture, one has to have it present, and then reject it. If that spirit isn't part of your life, then denying it is pointless.

[akariku.livejournal.com]

I would like to say that I have seen the video and even as an atheist, I think she and those others crossed the line.
Yes we have freedom of speech but some things should be kept to yourself.

I might not have a religion but one of my best friends is christian and her and I have this chat a lot.

we agreed to not mock the others faith and not try and convert the other.
And because of that agreement we get along even better.

So to deliberately post some thing like that then to say she did not mean it in an offensive way is offensive to many people.

I would also like to congratulate you on voicing your opinion is such a manner that it was still polite and in no way offensive to any one else reading the post.

sorry for a super long comment...

good luck in the fight against those who are intentional idiots.

[pet-tiger.livejournal.com]

You know, I have to say that her backpedalling was quite amusing if nothing else.

She screwed up by posting a video that was in poor taste, got called on it and then tried to save face by placing the blame elsewhere.

Any rational, open-minded person reading your responses would look at her funny when she claimed you were over-reacting. You were upset because she was being very insensitive and she reacted by acting like a two-year old.

I'm not really a believer in organized religion but I do believe there is a God. (whatever form he/she/it might be in) That said, the video didn't really offend me, it just made me roll my eyes. I mean, so what if Christ never existed? So what if the stories of the bible are just that; stories? Perhaps the more important thing is that we take away the meaning behind the stories. Perhaps it's more important to use it as a guide on how to live. I think Christianity and probably most of the other religions in the world all boil down to one main philosophy: Be kind to one another/Do unto others as you would have done unto you. I like to believe that what faith and spirituality should be about is that 1) you believe in a higher power and 2) you live your life the best you can and treat others the best you can. All the other stuff just feels like rules written by man. (But that is just me.)

[bladespark.livejournal.com]

Well, one of the things I believe most strongly is that a person's relationship with God is personal. It's between you, and God, and it's not really anybody else's buisiness. If you chose to have that relationship within the bounds of an organized religion, that's fine. If you chose to have it just one on one with nobody else involved, that's fine. Or even if you chose not to have it at all.

Myself, I find the feeling of fellowship and support provided by church attendance, as well as the opportunity to her other people's thoughts, and to study in a group where ideas can be shared, is very nice and helpful.

But that's how my relationship works, not everyone else's.

(Also, interestingly enough, she tells me that she's apologized now, and she's just waiting for me to apologize back so we can be friends again. Apparently saying "I've apologized" constitutes an actual apology, as I can't see her saying she's sorry anywhere. I'm not going to respond. I've said what I needed to say, and arguing further would be pointless.)

Wow

[anjel-kitty.livejournal.com]

You know I tried to apologize to you after the fact. I sent you two emails which you ignored. I even UNFROZE the comments. I really didn't know it would offend you that much, and I even made a filter so you wouldn't have to see it. All I asked was an apology for being such a bitch to me about something I didn't even mean to offend you with. And what do you do? You start drama on your own LJ bitch about me.
Well I see what sort of person you really are now bladespark. Not only are you intolerant of others, but you are a dramamonger to boot. I tried to apologize to you peacefully and in a private setting and you don't even have the maturity to deal with this and keep it between us to. I am frankly appalled and I'm glad we're no longer friends.

Re: Wow

[bladespark.livejournal.com]

Why are you still pursuing this?

If I were a drama monger, I'd be spreading this far and wide, and responding to all the hateful comments your friends have been leaving me. Instead I've been ignoring it and hoping that you will calm down and quit bothering me.

I unfriended you because I realized that the kind of person who thinks that sort of nasty mocking of the sacred is funny isn't the kind of person I wish to have around. And demanding I apologize to you when YOU were the one being offensive and nasty to me wasn't something I appreciated either.

You claim to have apologized, but I don't see any apologies anywhere. An apology would be you saying you're SORRY to have offended me. All I see is you calling me nasty names, and saying that you'll put things behind a cut as thought that were a perfect solution. It's not. If you're going to mock my faith, putting it behind a cut isn't going to make me happy. That just means you're talking behind my back about me.

And what's good for the goose is good for the gander. You say it's fine and dandy if you're nasty and offensive in your lj, because it's yours. Well guess what? My lj is mine, and I can say what I like in it.

Now shut up and leave me alone.

[growly.livejournal.com]

I don't really belong here, BUUUUUUT since I'm here and since this is a public entry, I feel the need to kibitz.

You're missing a few points here.
1. Anjel didn't make the movie.
2. She respects your beliefs, but also has her own, which she can certainly post about in her own journal.
3. See 1.
4. See 2.

[bladespark.livejournal.com]

Why, exactly, are you folks still discussing this? This is old news, and I really don't get why Anjel is still keeping it going.

1. She thinks something I find unacceptable is funny. This means that we are not compatible personalities, and it's better off if I just take her off my friends list and leave her alone, so we're not constantly fighting. I figured that was the most peaceful solution.
2. "Respect" implies a certain amount of forbearance. Would I be respecting her beliefs if I went around tring to tear them down? If I'd posted something asking people to deny that Global Warming is real, she'd be furious with me, and jusitryably so, as that would be disrepectful of things she thinks are important.

Apparently her definition of "respect" is that she'll graciously allow me to believe them, but she'll make fun of the all the same.

And her calling me bitch in the same post as she's telling me she's apologized isn't exaclty the action of somebody who cares for or respects my feelings.

We do not get along. We will never get alone. And I'd quite prefer if she just realized that and left me alone.

[loki-mk2.livejournal.com]

You know, when I come to think of it... being a furry is a sin against God in of itself isn't it?

[bladespark.livejournal.com]

Is there a point to this comment, or are you just trolling?

[perpetual-voice.livejournal.com]

Also...Heh. I had something happen like this. lol women-haters.

[bladespark.livejournal.com]

Huh?