Psst.

[bladespark]

Live feeding isn't evil.

Live feeding isn't inhumane.

Live feeding is stupid, but that's all. Letting your $.99 mouse kill your $100+ snake is just silly. (And they CAN kill the snake. Even if the mouse doesn't kill it right away, a badly mouse bitten snake often has to be put down.)

*evil grin* If you differ, feel free, but I'm going to think you're a bleeding heart, fluffy, PETA-like person. Dead mouse is dead mouse, whether it arrived frozen, or I twisted its little neck after I bought it or the snake strangled it. It's just as dead. If you think the way it dies matters to the mouse... well, please be prepared to offer up a darn good explanation, I've yet to hear one that didn't amount to "but the poor fluffy little thing suffered! *sniffsniff*" Because you know what's the funny thing? One way they kill feeder mice is by suffocating them. Yep. It's quite possible it'll get strangled either way. And when it boils right down to it, it's a mouse. Maybe it's the cat in me, but I don't think there's anything wrong with a mouse suffering a little bit, if that's what it takes to feed something else.

There's your FYI for the day, courtesy of stupid strangers who invade my lj and take issue with my opinions on feeder rodents.

Comments

[harliquinnraver.livejournal.com]

you forgot to add the bit about the cows lol

[bladespark.livejournal.com]

He he he. Why so I did! Ah well. It should be self-evident to anybody with a lick of sense, so most of my friends reading this can figure that out on their own.

[harliquinnraver.livejournal.com]

personally no matter what the animal, i try to minimize suffering. suffocation is pretty painless, a quick hard blow to the back of the head (if done right) kills instantly.

i suppose i do follow a bit of a Buddhists outlook on minimizing suffering, especially if its in my hands. but one way or the other, a mouse is food...err... for snakes. not me. not enough meat for me.

[chalcy.livejournal.com]

I don't know about the States but here in NZ, the standard 'humane' procedure for killing rodents is suffocation by carbon dioxide. In juveniles this should be followed by cervical dislocation (breaking its neck).

What always got me on this topic was that every predator hunts live prey in the wild. Most of them probably start eating their prey before it's properly dead. That's perfectly natural. If a human did this deliberately to an animal, yes, I can see how that would be inhumane (and also gross). But allowing a predator to behave normally as it would in the wild? No. That's nature. Cruel perhaps (from an objective view point), but not inhumane.

[reaverta.livejournal.com]

What she said.

(I was going to type pretty much that exact same post, but she 1: beat me to it, and 2: spelled it better. >.>)

[kaura-nighthawk.livejournal.com]

...wild snakes eat live mice all the time. Mice don't come prepackaged and dead in nature! wtf are these people on?

[bladespark.livejournal.com]

You tell me. Apparently because we're humans and have already intervened in the natural order, it is our duty to prevent such cruel horrors.

Or something.

You go read the comments on my previous post and tell me, I'm actually not sure, since all the actual explanation I got was "I love mice, so I hate live feeding." Which fine, whatever, but this makes you a fluffy PETA type.

wow

[aazhie.livejournal.com]

nice logic there. I love how animals are so great living in the wild, but when we have them as pets, suddenly feeding them becomes cruelty... dogs and cats murder cute little rats and mice all the time.
SOME WERE BRED FOR IT! why are they called RAT terriers???

but yet death by snake is worse than getting ripped apart by a cat? people can generally prevern their cats from killing rodents by keeping them indoors. But some people WANT them to be eaten, because they are not desirable. I don't see any difference between a cat or snake, and honestly, more cats would probably be healthier on similar diets to our snakes!

[aoanla.livejournal.com]

It is worth noting that most "primitive" (by which I mean "people who live in tribal communities, at a bronze or stone age level of technology") peoples clearly distinguish "pet" from "wild", across all types of animals. They'd not consider eating a pet goat, or dog, but a wild goat or dog is fair game.

What's interesting about Western cultures, especially Britain and America, is that we extend our concept of "pet" to whole species, not just particular instances of them.

[aoanla.livejournal.com]

Oh, this wasn't an argument against you - it was a point about how unusual Western cultures are that they produce this kind of argument.

[bladespark.livejournal.com]

*nods* We have a very screwy culture. Particularly when it produces something like PETA, whose more extreme proponents teach that a flatworm is no different from a human.

[pet-tiger.livejournal.com]

Yes, because a flatworm is going to discover the cure for cancer. *rollseyes*

[kiwihunter8.livejournal.com]

I think in our modern life we're just so distanced from our meat it's hard for many of us to think of ourselves as killers of any kind of animal. Yet a couple generations ago we'd all be twisting chickens necks, butchering hogs, etc. just as a part of daily life.

I think it's important to not let an animal suffer, even a mouse. But it sounds like you know what you're doing, and how to kill it quickly. In fact, your way is probably a whole lot less traumatic than what the pig my dinner pork chop went through to die.

I think gassing must be a pretty awful way to go, too.

Anyway, this is from someone who has had both mice, rats, as pets, and at the same time, had to feed them to snakes.

I think people are probably just freaking about the hands-on nature of killing a mouse for your snake. They can't imagine doing it themselves, so they get all irate.

[sparkindarkness.livejournal.com]

How can live feeding be evil? Snakes aren't usually carrion eaters (to my knowledge)... what do they think the snakey does in the wild? Wait until mousies die of a heart attack after a long and fufilled life?


And they want to see cruel death? See what happens when they kitties find a mouse to play with

carrion

[aazhie.livejournal.com]

some snakes will feed opportunistically on dead prey, but they are born to hunt. Some like corn snakes are just less picky about the stae of the hunted prey, whether it is bird, rodent or rotten nasty unidentifiable carcass :P corns= garbage disposals lol!

[svashtar.livejournal.com]

Live feeding is only stupid if you put the animal in the tank and walk away.

Live feeding works if you leave the animal in its carrier box and introduce the snake to the box. It works really well when the snake realises there is food available and nabs it right away.

Then, and only then, do I ever walk away.

Some snakes will not take anything other than live.

[bladespark.livejournal.com]

Well, there is that, yes. I was thinking more of the people who live feed because they like the "thrill" of seeing their snake kill something. Which is pretty darn silly.

[emirasan.livejournal.com]

I don't really see live feeding as a thrill, but it is definately facinating to watch a snake nab it's prey and then eat it. That an animal without arms or legs can hunt as effectively as they do is quite amazing...or at least to me it is.

[bladespark.livejournal.com]

There are a lot of interesting snake feeding videos on YouTube, actually. I found a set of ones with a giant Burmese python eating various things, including a chicken and a rabbit.

[emirasan.livejournal.com]

I'll have to look for those. I actually like to catch the ones on Discovery and Science channel too. Food is food and as long as the snake eats and is healthy, what's it matter? Glad to know little Anthony is doing well too btw. Last time I talked to my mom, she said Spooky had just eaten and was getting ready to shed. I don't see him getting any bigger now though as he is about 4ft long or a bit over.

um yeah

[aazhie.livejournal.com]

i always feel bad for the little buggers. I do feed FT when he will take them, but it's half and half mostly. While I will admit, it is entertaining to watch him hunt, it is just as fun to play with the rats/mice on tongs and make him chase it. The extra "thrill" for me is usually nerves, i just want him to kill it quick and be done, I would do without it all the same.


snakes are neat, nature is fun to watch, but you have to respect it too. it's not a game, but I don't think it is wrong to enjoy watching an animal doing its thing.

[2dlife.livejournal.com]

While I agree that it's perfectly fine to kill the mouse, I can see how people find live feeding inhumane. In the wild, mice get to escape and the snakes weed out the weaker rodents ... in the case of live feeding, not so much. It's like the humans who "hunt" by going to an enclosed space with a few deer placed inside or the ancient practice of throwing people to the lions. It's unsportsmanlike.

I personally don't mind live feeding, it's a pet after all and if it enjoys live mice, give it live mice. However, saying it's fine because that's what happens in nature is not accurate.

[thetommydodd.livejournal.com]

I've only ever experienced this from the supply side, but it might be of interest...
My summer vacation job was in a hatchery (mixed chicken and turkey), and one of the jobs there involved gassing the culls (Yes, I am a fully qualified gas-chamber operator: You don't meet one of them every day. After the job was done, they were always taken to the freezer to await collection by, well, anyone who wanted some; Herpetophiles and falconry enthusiasts mostly. But the policy was strictly "dead meat only" for two reasons.
1) Logistics. The numbers were high, storage space limited and feeding facilities nonexistent. New-hatched chicks were sexed and put in the trucks for delivery to the farm within 3hrs of coming out of the incubators, and this was at a distinctly uncivilised time of day. Collection would have been impractical in the extreme.
2) The first bloke to ask for live ones for his snakes radiated such a disturbing air of creepy enthusiasm that he quite put the manager off the idea altogether. Doubtless he wasn't representative, but on such first impressions are policy decisions made...

[jtbeckett.livejournal.com]

I meant to respond to this before, but I was busy then i forgot about it...

I personally have a problem with causing intentional unneccesary and unjustifiable pain to any living thing, mostly because I feel that's a good way to show respect for life and the basic order of things in general... so if your snake will ONLY eat live, then it's perfectly justifiable to feed live... I know the argument that they eat live in nature is there... but mice can run away in nature, too, so that's kind of a double standard. Anyhow, I don't panic about stepping on ants while I'm walking from here to there, but I wouldn't let my kids take a magnifying glass to an anthill at the park... It doesn't seem respectful to me. If ants are invading my home, you bet I'd take the whole colony out... If there is a mouse in my home, then a mousetrap is in order. (Yes, even the killing kind) And if the mouse is wise to those, and desperate measures must be taken, then poison may be in order... I think most people don't delight in causing the prolonged suffering of another living thing, no matter how small or seemingly insignificant. I'm an omnivore, you can tell by the kinda sharp teeth in the front, and the wide flat teeth in the back... so I'm not against eating meat or anything, just mostly against the idea of getting joy out of someone else's pain. I know that wasn't remotely the point you were making, you wouldn't get joy out of it... some things have to be done, and I think whacking a mouse on the head to kill it quickly is a lot kinder than prolonging its suffering, so that would be the better way to go, in my opinion... but as someone mentioned before... some snakes will only eat live, so in that case, the snake's gotta eat... perfectly justifiable. Different people will use different rationalizations... those are mine, for what they're worth.