The conspiracy of Neolithic foods.
Oct. 25th, 2007 04:04 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
bladesparkA few days ago I found this website about the "Paleolithic diet." It was interesting, so I read a bit here and there,particularly the basic intro page, though I didn't go through the whole site, it started to get boring pretty fast. (I can only read so much about food, I find, before it either makes me bored or hungry. In this case it was bored.) Here's a link to the page if anybody's interested.
Anyhow, the basic idea makes sense. Humans evolved as hunter-gatherers, so humans evolved to eat a hunter-gatherer diet, and this is what's best for us. Paleolithic humanity ate fruits, and vegetables, and meat when they could get it, but had little if any grain, because grain is really a result of agriculture. So to be really healthy, you should cut down on grains and other such starchy foods, and eat fruits and veggies and meats. Sounds sensible, yes? Yes. So I was with this guy that far, but then it started to get a little weird, because he keeps talking about how "toxic" grains, potatoes, legumes and other starchy foods are in their uncooked state. And also because the whole thing is presented with a rather evangelical/conspiracy theory sort of air. You must re-think all you know, because everything you know is wrong, and we are right, and this new amazing discovery will change how you think forever! That sort of thing always makes me a little wary. Particularly when the author says he will "share the secret" with you, and references a "small group of specialized scientists" that know all about this but are not telling the rest of the world, for some reason whic he never makes clear.
But anyhow. Toxicity. I'll give you a quote from the site: "Grains, beans and potatoes are full of energy but all are inedible in the raw state as they contain many toxins. There is no doubt about that- please don’t try to eat them raw, they can make you very sick." It then goes on to say "...cooking these foods made them edible- the heat destroyed enough toxins to render them edible."
Now I call BS right there, honestly. I have eaten raw wheat. I've eaten a fair bit of it. It is awesomely yummy. It is not toxic. Raw corn is also weird, but good. Raw potatoes are kind of gross, but I've never heard of anybody getting sick from them. Although that may just be because they're too gross to eat much of. And this site includes peas in the list if things that are "toxic" when raw. Peas? The only thing listed that I have ever heard of somebody getting sick from eating is beans, which can make you very ill if you eat them dry, but in their fresh, raw state are just fine and dandy! The site also frowns on raw pasta, and even on al dente pasta, because the incomplete cooking leaves toxins in place. I'm rather fond of oriental pasta salad, which involves raw ramen, and I used to eat spaghetti noodles raw a lot when I was a kid, and I always eat my pasta al dente when possible. If, honestly, these so-called toxins were so bad that even eating cooked foods is still bad for you (which is the central claim of this site) then wouldn't eating these things raw regularly make you seriously ill? The bit about "don’t try to eat them raw, they can make you very sick." sure seems to say so! But they don't make you very sick. They don't even make you a little bit ill.
I know that fruits and vegetables are wonderfully good for you, but I'm pretty sure the problem with a mostly-starch diet has to do with lack of vitamins, minerals, and complete proteins, not with "toxins." He names some specific things as toxins, "enzyme blockers, lecithins and other types." I had a missionary companion who was a weird health nut and had a HUGE jar of lecithin (labeled "Lecithin from Lewis Labs" which made me thing of a B-grade horror movie. "It Came From Lewis Labs, The Lecithin That Ate Ireland") which she added to all sorts of foods. If lecithin was that toxic, I somehow doubt they'd be allowed to sell it in pure state as an additive. Seriously. (Wikipedia says of it "Lecithin is an integral part of cell membranes, and can be totally metabolized, so it is virtually non-toxic to humans.") I have no idea if it has any actual health benefit, but I don't think that the presence of lecithins in my potatoes is going to make me sick. Enzyme blockers basically make your body produce more enzymes in order to digest something. Oh. No. Your pancreas has a tiny bit of extra work before you can completely digest your food. He says "They are effective poisons- rats cannot gain weight if they have substantial amounts of enzyme blockers in the diet." If you eat it, but don't digest it, and the only thing it does is just pass through your system, this is not called a toxin, this is called a "diet aid." Also, looking at Wikipedia again reveals that they same sort of enzyme blockers that are so bad in legumes are also found in eggs, which are on the "okay" list here. Oh and "other types" is apparently endorphins! Yup, endorphins in our starchy foods make us addictive and crazy.
Yeah.
Uhm.
Right.
This seriously seems to be written by somebody who started off sane, but then just went off the deep end into bizarre paranoia. I mean, of the "virtually non-toxic to humans" lecithin, he says that lecithin can "break down the surface of the small intestine, stripping it of mucus and causing the cells to become irregular and leaky. Some lecithins make cells act as if they have been stimulated by insulin. Others cause the pancreas to release insulin. Others cause immune cells to divide in the wrong way, causing growth of some white blood cells and breaking down the control of the immune system. Others cause cells to present the wrong codes (HLA's) on their surface, tricking the immune system into thinking that intruders have been found and activating the immune system inappropriately- thus leading to "autoimmune disease" where the body's tissues are attacked by its own immune system." And this is just the start. He also thinks that lecithin causes cancer, though he admits that science hasn't proved this.
Anyhow, the basic idea makes sense. Humans evolved as hunter-gatherers, so humans evolved to eat a hunter-gatherer diet, and this is what's best for us. Paleolithic humanity ate fruits, and vegetables, and meat when they could get it, but had little if any grain, because grain is really a result of agriculture. So to be really healthy, you should cut down on grains and other such starchy foods, and eat fruits and veggies and meats. Sounds sensible, yes? Yes. So I was with this guy that far, but then it started to get a little weird, because he keeps talking about how "toxic" grains, potatoes, legumes and other starchy foods are in their uncooked state. And also because the whole thing is presented with a rather evangelical/conspiracy theory sort of air. You must re-think all you know, because everything you know is wrong, and we are right, and this new amazing discovery will change how you think forever! That sort of thing always makes me a little wary. Particularly when the author says he will "share the secret" with you, and references a "small group of specialized scientists" that know all about this but are not telling the rest of the world, for some reason whic he never makes clear.
But anyhow. Toxicity. I'll give you a quote from the site: "Grains, beans and potatoes are full of energy but all are inedible in the raw state as they contain many toxins. There is no doubt about that- please don’t try to eat them raw, they can make you very sick." It then goes on to say "...cooking these foods made them edible- the heat destroyed enough toxins to render them edible."
Now I call BS right there, honestly. I have eaten raw wheat. I've eaten a fair bit of it. It is awesomely yummy. It is not toxic. Raw corn is also weird, but good. Raw potatoes are kind of gross, but I've never heard of anybody getting sick from them. Although that may just be because they're too gross to eat much of. And this site includes peas in the list if things that are "toxic" when raw. Peas? The only thing listed that I have ever heard of somebody getting sick from eating is beans, which can make you very ill if you eat them dry, but in their fresh, raw state are just fine and dandy! The site also frowns on raw pasta, and even on al dente pasta, because the incomplete cooking leaves toxins in place. I'm rather fond of oriental pasta salad, which involves raw ramen, and I used to eat spaghetti noodles raw a lot when I was a kid, and I always eat my pasta al dente when possible. If, honestly, these so-called toxins were so bad that even eating cooked foods is still bad for you (which is the central claim of this site) then wouldn't eating these things raw regularly make you seriously ill? The bit about "don’t try to eat them raw, they can make you very sick." sure seems to say so! But they don't make you very sick. They don't even make you a little bit ill.
I know that fruits and vegetables are wonderfully good for you, but I'm pretty sure the problem with a mostly-starch diet has to do with lack of vitamins, minerals, and complete proteins, not with "toxins." He names some specific things as toxins, "enzyme blockers, lecithins and other types." I had a missionary companion who was a weird health nut and had a HUGE jar of lecithin (labeled "Lecithin from Lewis Labs" which made me thing of a B-grade horror movie. "It Came From Lewis Labs, The Lecithin That Ate Ireland") which she added to all sorts of foods. If lecithin was that toxic, I somehow doubt they'd be allowed to sell it in pure state as an additive. Seriously. (Wikipedia says of it "Lecithin is an integral part of cell membranes, and can be totally metabolized, so it is virtually non-toxic to humans.") I have no idea if it has any actual health benefit, but I don't think that the presence of lecithins in my potatoes is going to make me sick. Enzyme blockers basically make your body produce more enzymes in order to digest something. Oh. No. Your pancreas has a tiny bit of extra work before you can completely digest your food. He says "They are effective poisons- rats cannot gain weight if they have substantial amounts of enzyme blockers in the diet." If you eat it, but don't digest it, and the only thing it does is just pass through your system, this is not called a toxin, this is called a "diet aid." Also, looking at Wikipedia again reveals that they same sort of enzyme blockers that are so bad in legumes are also found in eggs, which are on the "okay" list here. Oh and "other types" is apparently endorphins! Yup, endorphins in our starchy foods make us addictive and crazy.
Yeah.
Uhm.
Right.
This seriously seems to be written by somebody who started off sane, but then just went off the deep end into bizarre paranoia. I mean, of the "virtually non-toxic to humans" lecithin, he says that lecithin can "break down the surface of the small intestine, stripping it of mucus and causing the cells to become irregular and leaky. Some lecithins make cells act as if they have been stimulated by insulin. Others cause the pancreas to release insulin. Others cause immune cells to divide in the wrong way, causing growth of some white blood cells and breaking down the control of the immune system. Others cause cells to present the wrong codes (HLA's) on their surface, tricking the immune system into thinking that intruders have been found and activating the immune system inappropriately- thus leading to "autoimmune disease" where the body's tissues are attacked by its own immune system." And this is just the start. He also thinks that lecithin causes cancer, though he admits that science hasn't proved this.
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no subject
Date: 2007-10-26 12:04 am (UTC)The human body is pretty amazing in terms of what it can digest. The list of things that can't be eaten is rather small, mostly including things like sheet metal. Which does not kill you by digestion, but rather with puncture wounds.
This guy has been taken in by the talk about how, 'The food you eat is poison! Buy only our stuff, it is the only food that isn't poison.' Great way to get repeat customers, since food is one of those nicely nessicary things that people always need.
no subject
Date: 2007-10-26 01:07 am (UTC)I'm going to go eat some raw salmon now...
no subject
Date: 2007-10-26 01:32 am (UTC)Hee. Heck, if this guy is right and we're supposed to eat like humans did before we started cooking things, then obviously raw meat is the way to go!
no subject
Date: 2007-10-26 01:43 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-10-28 07:19 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-10-26 01:14 am (UTC)I think it's too bad these people go off the deep end into pseudoscience, because like you said, at the beginning he was making sense.
no subject
Date: 2007-10-26 01:41 am (UTC)Part of the problem with a starchy diet is the body can't fully process some kinds of starch, so excess leads to problems with blood sugar and such, as that's what the body converts starches to. It just means extra work, and therefore more potential for something to go wrong (diabetes). Heck, corn syrup alone is consumed in bulk daily, take a look at the ingredients on pretty much any soda. (Thank you Jones Co.! Real sugar soda! Woo!)
Overall, it's junk. Fad diets generally are.
no subject
Date: 2007-10-26 02:51 am (UTC)Now that we've got that bit clarified, have the second bit - it's suspected we've been using agriculture for approximately ten thousand years. Uh. Going by a very conservative estimate of one generation per 25 years (That is, it takes on average 25 years for offspring to produce their own offspring, which is downright silly for most of human history, but let's run with it...) we're looking at 400 generations of humans - who started out as omnivores to begin with - subsiding on agriculture.
That's plenty of time for humanity to have 'evolved' the ability to eat grains, and in fact we have - intolerances like gluten intolerance are now both rare, and up until very recently, tended to be severe enough to quite possibly prevent someone from passing on said intolerance. One would suspect it was much more common before agriculture became a crucial source of sustinence, and then has been progressively bred out of the population since.
And remember, a toxin is anything that chemically poisons a bodies biochemical processes. Everything we eat is full of toxins, it's just most of them are neutralised by our bodies without even trying. ;)
no subject
Date: 2007-10-26 03:14 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-10-26 03:27 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-10-26 03:32 am (UTC)Oh, is this related to the water toxicity thing where you can die if you drink too much water because it dilutes the salt in your blood but you have to drink like 10 gallons in 10 minutes or something.
no subject
Date: 2007-10-26 03:38 am (UTC)Here, have a look: http://web.archive.org/web/19970125142623/media.circus.com/~no_dhmo/
no subject
Date: 2007-10-26 04:09 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-10-26 11:00 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-10-26 11:45 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-10-26 05:52 pm (UTC)he's taking it a little too far...
Date: 2007-10-27 09:08 pm (UTC)Mass producing things like wheat and corn means you have to store it longer than some guy who sells locally grown food, it sits around longer and gets moldy or stale than someone who picks an ear or corn and brings it to the farmer's market the next day. This can cause food allergies because people's bodies react to the bugs/pesticides/ mold that gets on the food during its growth or storage.
processing: a lot of foods are more processed than necessary. Basically when the food isn't too fresh or a lot of it is removed during processing, the nutrients left are fewer or more basic than our bodies may tolerate. So it's kind of like trying to live off poop or rotting food, something that has already been broken down by other processes and has had some or many nutrients removed from it. Pure white refined sugar is harsher on your body than raw or cane sugar because it has been bleached, and it is essentially pure, notrhing aside from what makes the sweet flavor is left. Molasses has more of the sugar plant left in it, so your body is able to handle it easier than sugar. The more baked or processed a food is, the more it resembles a chemical than a combination of chemicals/enzymes/stuff that is in food. Our bodies are made to break down tough starches and protiens, not get them already broken down. Digestion breaks refined food down even further, which isn't necessarily needed, so it causes problems like cramps, gas, etc. Not that eating all fresh foods always solves digestive problems. However, anyone who has seen "supersize me," can imagine it helps you feel better.
I heard in an Anthropology class that certain kinds of genetic heritages deal better with certain foods. The Masai and europens who lived (or whose ancestors) off cow meat and milk have low occurance of lactose intolerance. Their ancestors will deal better with diary products that somone whose ancestores lived mainly off of fish and lean meats, and the smae with those whose ancestors adapted to a mainly vegetarian diet.
basically i agree with Roseredhoofbeat: "Hey, this stuff is good for you, that stuff not so good, and please don't eat that many cookies a day."
People just need to find out what makes them get insane intestinal cramps by monitoring when they feel crappy and what they ate the day before, don't eat it for a month, & if they feel better, limit its consumption. Junk food is pretty bad for you, but so are drinking and smoking, so just don't overdo any of them and you will be OK. If your parents' parents died of alcohol or overeating related illnesses, you have to be extra careful about those kinds of things. I have two close members who have had breast cancer, so i need to watch for lumps, so does my roomate. It is great to think for yourself and not listen to either food nazis or junk food companies and eat what you like and what makes you feel good.
no subject
Date: 2007-10-28 07:23 am (UTC)