!

[bladespark]

Okay, I know I'm flooding my friends list, but, but, but...

I just learned something I NEVER knew. And should have, damn it. The word "Waterboarding," what is it? Well, I first heard it connected with the term "Chinese Water Torture" and there's where I went wrong. Because as a kid, my brother used to sneak up on me and drip water on my head, and yell "Chinese Water Torture!" and run for it. And a few other of my childhood peers used the phrase similarly. I got from this the idea that that's what it was, in it's entirety. And that the "torture" part was being restrained, miserable, cold, and unable to rest because your sleep is constantly interrupted by the water. I thought it was mostly psychological effects combined with chil and sleep deprivation.

And as such, I thought it constituted torture and was not a valid method of interrogation.

Some of you reading this already know how innocent that notion was. Waterboarding is not, as I had thought, merely being miserable and wet. It is actually one of the more horrific tortures I can think of. *shudders* Silver linked to an article about it that mentioned some details that didn't jive at all with the "dripping water on you" notion, so I went and looked it up. Have a look yourself. It's basically drowning somebody. Actual water actually in their lungs, with possability of screwing up and killing them outright. You drown. It feels like dying. And then you find you're not dead after all, but you know they can do that again to you any time. Ugh. Just thinking about it is making me twitch.

And, of course, anybody who knows anything about how human minds function knows that torture doesn't work for getting accurate intelligence anyhow. (I've heard somebody with actual experience in prisoner interrogation say they got more, and more accurate information by letting prisoners bum a cigarette than by any form of intimidation or torture.) It's only being used because the people using it are bullies, led by bullies, in a nation headed by a bully.

*sigh*

I think I'm moving to New Zealand.

(P.S. All my posts today seem to have had appropriate music. Including this one, if you're familiar with it. Spooky.)

Comments

[harliquinnraver.livejournal.com]

ah. chinese water torture and waterboarding are 2 vastly different things. one works on the basis of slowly driving you insane, and the other is...well...you about summed it up.

[sparkindarkness.livejournal.com]

Harli beat me, but water torture is a world of a way different from waterboarding. Waterboarding is forcing someone's head under water repeastedly to the point where they almost drown, seriously believe they're going to drown and suffer asll the effects of drowing except the ultimate one.

Chinese water torture may or may not have actually happened (apart from anything else, you have to be daaaaamn patient to get any results) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_water_torture and did involve constantly dripped water onto the forehead until the constant sensation drove you insane

As to torture and any kind of truthfulness - common sense should show how useless it is. The whole premise of torturing people for information is that you drive someone to the point where they can't endure any more and will do ANYTHING to make it stop - so they tell you their secrets. Except if they are willing to ANYTHING to make it stop they are equally likely to tell you whatever you want to hear. In fact, I'm not entirely unsure that the various supporters and users of torture don't want these false results - they don't want informtion, they want confirmation of what they already believe

[reaverta.livejournal.com]

Is there an explicit reason why New Zealand, outta interest?

Not that I'd mind. I'm just nosy.

[bladespark.livejournal.com]

Canada is too close to America, and too influenced by it, the UK is a little too conservative and WAY too Big Brother just now, and I don't want to go somewhere that I don't speak the language. Australia is also a possible option, though I hear tell at the moment they have a twit as Prime Minister.

[reaverta.livejournal.com]

Ahhh, we may yet have a Twit Prime Minister too shortly, but at least they're less likely to go brown-nosing the americans.

And hey, there's us. I have a standing offer that anyone who visits NZ gets a bottle of beer, shouted on me. Of course in your case, maybe we could do coff-- sod--

...milk? ;)

[bladespark.livejournal.com]

Hot chocolate is my addictive beverage of choice.

[reaverta.livejournal.com]

I think I can manage that. ;)

[nancylebov.livejournal.com]

It's ok. I had some years where I couldn't figure out why people were so worked up about pedophilia. After all, what's the big deal about foot fetishes?

[silveradept]

Hrm. Now I wonder how many other people have confused the two, and if that's contributing to the debate about whether it really is torture.

[malakim2099.livejournal.com]

I dunno. Apparently presidential candidates don't think Sleep Deprivation is a form of torture (and it is, rest assured of that). But what does it mean when we are arguing about what exactly is "torture".

I mean, I realize we had the debate over what "is" is, but no one was drowning with that. But hey, you can't really go wrong with a technique originally perfected by Torquemada, right? *rolls eyes*

New Zealand, Australia, or just someplace that actually believes in human rights. Hrm. There is an eBay office in Brisbane...

[silveradept]

It would be nice to live in a country where the government actually believes that its citizens are humans, and that the other people in the world are human, and accords them all the same respect for their human-ness. Do such places exist anymore?

[reaverta.livejournal.com]

We've had the police keep an extra close eye on our muslim communities from time to time.

...To protect them, from idiot retaliators. (There were fears that they would start getting targeted with hate crimes over the bombings elsewhere, which the community itself had unequicoally condemned, etc)

Does that count? >.>

[silveradept]

Yeah, because that's the police doing their duty. Over here, one police department might be watching to protect, another might be watching for any sort of slip-up so that they could inflict.

[sphix.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I just learned what it was last night... Depressing, that is. We'll go to NZ together! XD

[malakim2099.livejournal.com]

Is there a group discount rate on immigration? Maybe we could qualify if there's enough people! *grins*

[sphix.livejournal.com]

Hah! ...Can we get across that border illegally? O.o